I would like to mention that I do not mean to be offensive either, but I get very offended when the true character and nature of my Savior and His Word is maligned by false teaching. God is a jealous God (Ex. 20:5) and His servants are jealous for Him:

“But His Word was in my heart like a burning fire shut up in my bones; I was weary of holding it back, And I could not.” (Jer 20:9)

In addition, His followers are called to be zealous against error and expose darkness (Eph 5:11) not have fellowship with it. I know we are also supposed to be gentle but sometimes that’s impossible, (as was with Jesus when He took a whip to the money changers in the temple).

In addition to my comments above regarding fleshly wars, I would like to add that the most common objection that Christians use against other Christians who believe that war goes against the New Testament is the passage in Romans 13 where the Apostle Paul tells believers to “obey the State.” It was an argument I rationalized in my mind and agreed with for many years. However, after a little sincere digging in Scripture, the truth became so obvious it is a wonder I never saw it before: Since when did the laws of the State and government take precedence over God’s laws? Acts 5:29 says “We must obey the laws of God, not men.” And God already said plainly in the NT to “love and pray for our enemies” and “turn the other cheek.”

If the law of the state conflicts with God’s laws that are plainly written in the Bible, we are called to disobey the State! We would not condone or perform an abortion and neither should we condone or support Christians fighting in fleshly wars. There is a second problem with trying to invoke Romans 13 in support of war. Paul says to obey our governments because “The authorities that exist have been established by God” (Romans 13:1). Remember Herod, who wanted to kill all the first born of Israel, including the baby Jesus? Should the Israelites have obeyed Herod because he was “established by God?” Likewise, if we are to follow that reasoning consistently, it follows that the governments of the other countrys (i.e. Iraq, Iran, etc) has also been established by God! The Bible does not say “The goverment of America ONLY has been established by God”! And so it follows Scripturally that our government has absolutely no right self-righteously judge,attack and destabilise this other government.
When we look at it this way, it is clear that Romans 13 does not address the issue of war at all. It simply tells us to be good citizens, obeying the laws of our country when they do not go against God’s principles. Nothing more. And as far as protecting ourselves against our “enemies”, God clearly says that He will make all our enemies to be at peace with us when we obey His laws and statutes, (which we obviously DO NOT, judging from the condition of the country!) When we are attacked by our enemies, it is a definate sign of Divine judgment! God commands true Christians everywhere to: “Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. Col 3:15 Can God be any plainer?
The true power of Christians is not national might, not the arm of the flesh; it is the grace of God. We have lost this power through denominationalism which is the unscriptural division of the Church caused by teaching the various traditions of men infused with doctrines of demons rather than the Spiritual law of the LIFE in Christ Jesus taught by the Holy Spirit! Paul warned the Galatians 2,000 years ago what would happen to them if they abandoned the power of the Spirit for the arm of the flesh and the teachings of men. “Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.” (Rom. 12:19-21)

Do you see any exception clauses here for the military slaughter of ‘enemies’? Lynn D.

My comment “are you pleasing to God?” was not meant to offend, but was meant to force us to focus. Maybe it should have been phrased as “are we pleasing to God?” The question was more rhetorical in nature, and the answer is, no we are not, otherwise our country would not be in the shape it is in.

“How do you expect man’s ways to be pleasing before the Lord if we do not exercise our right in this country to vote for laws that will reflect His character?”

We are not commanded anywhere to get involved in the political process. As a matter of fact we have no “right” to get involved in the process at all, unless we are of this world. If we are of this world then by all means get your man in office. If we are citizens of this world we have a right and an obligation to the world, but if we are of another country then we have no rights at the polls, because our citizenship and loyalty is to another.

Ignorance is wholesale amongst the believing community. Christians do not understand what Christ meant by His life and by His words. They have been conditioned by denominational creeds and statements of faith. They have been sidetracked by tradition, and Protestants have concluded that the Reformation was the final word on what God desires, and Catholics return again and again to the seven ecumenical councils.

I grieve to think about the gross sin, not of the world, but in the “church,” of those who are called brother and sister. The problem is not in the world, it is in the Church, and it just so happens that this is where “judgment will start.”

Did Christ come to change the world? No, He came to save sinners out of the world! Christians have a “say so” within the Body of Christ, the Church, but not in the world. We should live peaceably with the world, but if the world smites us on the cheek our only recourse is to turn the other cheek, not to submit legislation to make it illegal to smite a person on the cheek. Was not this Christ’s example? Did Jesus get involved in politics? Did He exercise His “rights?” Jesus came on a mission, as Christians do, dropped behind enemy lines, and did not lose His focus on the things of this world.

I do not like being offensive and if I come across that way I apologize, but Christianity is way off course, and I am not referring to the fringe elements, I mean the mainstream. The Church is very sick, from head to tail. Very little that we see in the organized church resembles what is spoken of in the Bible, and politics is just one small sore on a decaying body.

I do want to end on a positive note by stating that there is hope in Christ for those who want healing more than they want a conservative president.

Steve Blackwell

In addition Jen, the Centurion was already a Roman citizen, not a professing Christian. If he later became a true follower of Christ, he would forfeit his life in this world, take up his cross and follow Jesus, not slaughter his fellow man in war. War in the Old Testament cannot be used to justify and annul Christ’s command to “love our enemies and pray for those who hate us.” Or any of these commands: Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God” (Matt 5:9) The soul of the Lord hates…those who love violence. (Psalms 11:5). Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword. (Matt 25:52) Seek peace and pursue it. (Psalms 17:4). Scatter the nations who delight in war. (Psalms 68:30) I am for peace; but when I speak, they are for war. (Psalms 120:6) Love your enemies; pray for those who hate you. (Matt 5:43). The Old Testament was a physical warfare, the New Testament is SPIRITUAL WARFARE. Christ’s true servants do not fight fleshly wars: If My kingdom were of this world My servants would fight…..(John 18:36) HE SAID IT, not me!
In Just War ethics, Jesus Christ, who is supposed to be all in the Christian life, is irrelevant. He might as well never have existed. In Just War ethics, no appeal is made to Him or His teaching, nor can it be, since neither He nor His teaching gives any standards whatsoever for Christians to follow in order to determine what level of slaughter is acceptable. When Christ disarmed Peter of his sword he disarmed all Christians of their’s. Later on, when opportunities were given for Christians to appease the state by joining the fighting Roman army, these opportunities were rejected, because the early Church saw the complete and obvious incompatibility between loving as Christ loved and killing. It was Christ, not the god of war (Satan), who gave them true security and peace.
Today the world is on the brink of ruin because the church refuses to be the church, and because Christians have been deceiving both themselves and the non-Christian world about the truth of Christ (The Word – Jn 1:1). There is no way to follow Christ, to love as Christ loved, and simultaneously to kill other people. It is a lie to say that the spirit that moves the trigger of a flamethrower is the Holy Spirit. It is a lie to say that learning to kill is learning to be Christ-like. It is a lie to say that learning to drive a bayonet into the heart of another is motivated from having put on the mind of Christ. Militarized/Patriotic Christianity is an apostate lie. America and Israel have two of the most powerful armies in the world, so tell me, where’s the PEACE? You “Christian scholars” and “patriots” can’t show me in the New Testament, in the Words of Jesus Christ, where Christians are EVER instructed to call for, support or desire war……ITS NOT IN THERE! Maybe if you would actually READ your Bibles instead of carrying them around while listening to all the wolves in sheep’s clothes, you might realize the same thing that true believers already know: For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 2 Cor 10:3 Try twisting that one!

I am well aware that God has chosen to put Barack Obama over this nation to fulfill His good purposes. And I agree that he may very well be God’s instrument of wrath on the US. However, what I was commenting on had to do with your “single issue voter comment, as well as Lynn D’s comment on abortion and the Iraq war.

I really wish you would have tried to reason against my arguments instead of making derisive comments like “are you pleasing God?” I am of the elect of the Lord, therefore I am pleasing to Him because of what Christ Jesus has done, and I live my life to please Him by His power and not my own. Those types of comments are quite unnecessary.

You said “your vote or mine can not change what God has ordained” and that is true. But our votes stopped homosexual marriage from becoming legal in California (and 2 other states). God must have ordained that also. And the vehicle He used was the people who voted, many of whom were Christians.

It grieves me that many Christians do not vote in this country, even if it is just for the propositions. If same sex marriage wasn’t banned, even more condemnation would have been heaped on the heads of homosexuals in this country. The Lord’s wrath is upon them already, as it is upon all sinners, however, it is a blessing that they have been stopped from incurring even more of God’s wrath due to the additional sin of defiling God’s holy institution of marriage. I thank the Lord for His mercy upon them.

How do you expect man’s ways to be pleasing before the Lord if we do not exercise our right in this country to vote for laws that will reflect His character?

Thank you for the letter.

Your response is not unexpected, because you are well inside the Christian camp of those who feel that they must change the world. I have shared your feelings for many years and thought it was my Christian duty to get the right fellow into office to preserve a lifestyle that would be good for me, my whole family, and the rest of the world. What I have discovered is that those thoughts were exactly that, “my thoughts.”

To keep my reply short allow me to quote a passage from Proverbs 16:7 “When a man’s ways are pleasing to the Lord, He makes even his enemies live at peace with him.”

When we see all the problems caving in on the American people, including abortion and perverted sex, we Americans, like all mankind, think that we must do something to fix the problems. We think that if anything is going to get done, we have to do it, and so we set out to do what God said He Himself would do if our ways pleased Him. So, when we see these things happening to us we must take a long look in the mirror and know that our problem is that person in the mirror who is not pleasing to God.

Barack Obama is God’s choice for this Nation, just like King Saul was God’s choice for Israel, he is God’s anointed, for good or for evil. I believe he is the man set by God to initiate God’s wrath on this country; your vote or mine can not change what God has ordained. We are an unrighteous, perverted, vain, egotistic, blind, deaf, and unrepentant people, and we have gotten what we deserve.

The answer to our woes is not in the election process, believe it or not, it is in you and me. Are you pleasing God?

Blessings,

Steve Blackwell

(I meant to write “THROUGH CHRIST” in my comment above).

Would you vote for a man who said he planned on taking away the voting rights of African-Americans, but who otherwise had a great plan for America? If not, why? It’s only the SINGLE issue of his racism. How much more apalled should we be when the SINGLE issue is the murder of unborn children. I think that SINGLE issue is a plenty good one to disqualify a candidate from my vote.

We have no excuse before God to turn a blind eye to the destruction of human life. We have been placed BY GOD in a country where we are allowed to vote for men who will honor the sanctity of life (and of marriage, for that matter).

Lynn D. said:
“I recently read some right wing christian saying that their biggest issues are anti-abortion and anti-homosexuality and they are voting along those lines, so that means they are voting for Mccain. From a worldly perspective lets look at how ridiculous this is. 1. Is John Mccain really going to stop abortion in this country? NO! 2. These same so called christians told you to vote for Bush for the same reasons, can you tell me how many babies were saved as a result of voting for George Bush? NOT ONE.

Actually, Bush banned partial birth abortion, which Obama will overturn. So quite a few babies were spared a horrific death.

Lynn D. also said:
“So its not okay to kill babies in the womb but it is ‘okay’ to send them to their death when they are 18 years old in Iraq or Iran?”

So it’s OK to kill babies since we’re sending people to war? Where did you get the idea that war is always wrong? According to Scripture? No. As my fellow church member, Neil Mammen wrote:

• Jesus never told the Roman Centurion to stop being in the army
• None of the apostles ever said war was evil
• In the OT God explicitly sends Moses, Joshua, Gideon and many others to war and blesses them.
• Even the early church fathers and the great Christian theologians Augustine and Aquinas came up with the Just War theory. Why do so, if all wars were sinful?
• Was it unjust for us to go to War with Germany in WW II?
• Was it wrong for us to defend ourselves against Japan in WW II?
• Ecclesiastes says clearly: “There is a time for war and a time for peace”

We are called to be light in the world, to live as a godly example to others and to proclaim God’s law to the unbeliever so that they might know their guilt and be granted repentance that leads to eternal life. The prophets in the OT were also called to be a godly example, and called to warn the people of God’s wrath to come on the evildoer. These prophets of God PUBLICLY chastised leaders and warned the people of God’s judgements for going against His law.
They were INVOLVED with the political establishment, and were obviously not appreciated for this. Neither are Christians.

I could go on, but I have the flu and am tired. Just wanted to give my brothers and sisters something to consider. God bless.

God’s prophets said it all, didn’t they! Too bad most of organized christianity writes them off as “only for the Jews.” They seem to miss the admonishment in 2 Pet 3:2 that says (paraphrased) “Heed the prophets that came before.” If they would read Jeremiah 50 and 51 along with Isaih 13 and 47 with the spiritual knowledge that God’s Word is living and active and the prophecys pertain to both the past and present, their would be no doubt in their minds who “Mystery Babylon” is or her false harlot religious system that rides the government beast. No, doubt, protestant, organized Christianity is the daughter of babylonian Catholicism.

I am just wondering if all the professing Christians who have the little fish symbols on their vehicles realize that they are honoring a demon god? The fish symbol happens to represent the demonic pagan god “Dagon” (1 Sam chpt. 5) who was worshipped by the Philistines in the Old Testament. He was a ‘god’ (fallen angel) that inspired his servants to engage in child sacrifice and all manner of sexual perversions, including beastiality. This fish symbol is what the Bible refers to in the Old and New Testaments as an idol, carved image or another Jesus (i.e. antiChrist). It is also the same “fish head hat” or two-horned mitre worn by the Catholic Pope and cardinals. This is the real god of Mystery Babylon, who masquerades as “Christ”.

I can only shudder to think how the Lord Jesus Christ must feel when He looks down at all these ignorant ‘Christians’ running around town with Dagon symbols on their cars and shirt lapels (and “I Love Sarah Palin” signs in their front yards!). They are committing such horrible and shameful idolatry without even realizing it! Just like we all are without total surrender to Jesus, they are walking in total spiritual darkness. Satan loves to mock Christian ignorance by getting them to worship him on the sly. He’s been doing it for thousands of years. That’s his specialty and people are very naive to think they are “smarter than the devil” without the light of Christ. That’s why the Catholics worship Mary (satan), the Mormons worhip the angel Morani (satan), the orientals worship Buddha (satan), the Hindus worship cows (satan) and protestant Christianity worships little fish, nicolaitan pastors and celebrates pagan holidays disguised as ‘christian’ like winter solistice— which is the celebration of the ancient Babylonian king Nimrod’s birthday (disguised as “Christ-mass” by the Catholics) and Easter (the fertility goddess Ishtar represented by eggs and bunnies) and the list of deceptions goes on and on. We have been duped by the Catholics into celebrating the death of Christ-(mass) and the birth of a pagan king, Nimrod!! We’ve all been played like fools, myself included (up until the past couple of years). Jesus was born in September or October since the shepherds were sleeping out in the pasture which they do during the Jewish harvest season which is in September and October (the Jewish month of Tishri).

“For My people are foolish, They have not known Me, They are silly children, And they have no understanding. They are wise to do evil, But to do good they have no knowledge.” Jeremiah 4:22 (NKJV)

It should be apparent to most folks by now that the worldly institutions of government, fleshly wars and religion do absolutely nothing toward solving mankind’s problems but, in fact, perpetuate them. They are all traps designed to ensnare, deceive, indoctrinate and render spiritually and intellectually inert those who do not have within them a genuine love of the truth. And all the bloody “Christian” crusades, inquisitions, revolutions and “settlement” (i.e theft) of new lands, in which the Native Indian populations were tortured, murdered, raped and pillaged or the ‘worthy ones’ converted to (their version) of ‘christianity’ was the so called ‘christianity’ that America was founded on. It was based on fleshly war and violence not truth and love as taught by (the real) Jesus Christ.

Unfortunately, because of all this deception and the unwillingness of most to bother to search out the facts, many people want nothing to do with the real Jesus Christ, who is not behind all this evil and hypocrisy. They look to organized religion and see the phony charade, glaring ignorance and blatant hypocrisy and believe that this is representative of the true Jesus so they want nothing to do with Him. And, though the religious church services may appear benign and ‘uplifting’ they have the opposite effect which is subtley separating one further from the truth. The lie and the illusion are made more “morally” acceptable and comfortable in the organized church setting, and the truth is never made fully known , only the acceptable parts that don’t interfere with the hidden agenda. Instead of each person searching out truth for themselves, they leave it to a hired hand while they elevate and worship the ego of each other and keep their true inner being hidden. The true Jesus Christ is not allowed, since He is not just a God of love, but is also a Holy and pure God of justice and judgment and He is no respector of persons. They can’t stomach Him in His entirety so they simply reject Him according to the full counsel of His Word and settle for an anti-Christ which simply means another Jesus. Anti means “instead of” like using nutra sweet instead of sugar. They taste similar but are composed of totally different ingredients. They seem to think the “Antichrist” will be a horned devil in a red suit that they will immediately recognize not realizing that antichrist is a spirit that will culminate into “another Christ” and that spirit has already infiltrated the church establishment and the world.

This is the sad state of what is called Christianity today. You either love the praise of men and playing the “game” or you become disgusted with the charade and run back to the world, giving up searching for the true Jesus, who is not religious and phony but is supremely loving and brilliant in knowledge and wisdom. He can be found only by those willing to humble themselves as a little child and only in His Word since He is the Word. John 1:1 He does not hear the proud, the phony or the self-absorbed, but only those with a genuine love of the truth and He does not belong to church “denominations.” He is outside the camp! Heb 13:13.

Thank you for that note, I agree.

As much as I would like to see the Lord’s Church repent and have their eyes opened I can’t see it. Our Lord’s command to “come out from among them” includes even their involvement in the political process, even voting, and I am learning daily that it goes much further than I have even imagined.

There are many passages of Scripture that declare God’s anger with how the world governs. Ezekiel, example, says plainly:

Ezek 22:23-29 “Again the word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, say to the land, ‘You are a land that has had no rain or showers in the day of wrath.’ There is a conspiracy of her princes within her like a roaring lion tearing its prey; they devour people, take treasures and precious things and make many widows within her. Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them. Her officials within her are like wolves tearing their prey; they shed blood and kill people to make unjust gain. Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says’-when the LORD has not spoken. The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the alien, denying them justice.” NIV

Where are our eyes to see and our ears to hear? Ezekiel’s following words pronounce the judgment.

Ezek 22:30-31 “I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found none. So I will pour out my wrath on them and consume them with my fiery anger, bringing down on their own heads all they have done, declares the Sovereign LORD.”
NIV

His words in the next passage, I believe, not only identify Samaria and Jerusalem, but can identify the twin daughters of the Catholic and Protestant churches.

Ezek 23:1-4 “The word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother. They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed. The older was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. They were mine and gave birth to sons and daughters. Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem.” NIV

Ezekiel’s following words are almost pornographic in there description of these two daughters (I will not quote them here), but they aptly envision the church of these modern times. These two daughter were clearly out to change the world by the power of their perverted religion, and cast their vote along what they thought was best for them, but only resulted in bringing judgment on themselves and their followers.

God forgive us,

Steve Blackwell